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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:11 am
by PrinceLabuta
I am sick and tired of people who hate me and my fellow communists just because we are communists. Does it mean that if we are communists we are evil and we deserve to die?

OK, I admit, i am a communist, a mild leftist that follows Marxism/Leninism. does that make me evil? is it wrong to believe that the proletariat is the vanguard of the revolution?

I am not born to a poor family but i see the suffering of the oppressed masses, the inequality found in our society, exploited by the borgiose upper class. is it wrong to fight for them and demand justice and equality?

Is being a revolutionary wrong?


PS: im just pissed, nearly got fired because i am a communist.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:56 pm
by haprish
PrinceLabuta @ Nov 3 2007, 03:11 AM wrote: PS: im just pissed, nearly got fired because i am a communist.


You're a lawyer right?

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:29 pm
by Rizzy886
I don't hate communists, I hate people who pretend to be communists because they think it's non-conformist and cool.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:53 pm
by PrinceLabuta
haprish @ Nov 4 2007, 01:56 AM wrote:
PrinceLabuta @ Nov 3 2007, 03:11 AM wrote: PS: im just pissed, nearly got fired because i am a communist.


You're a lawyer right?


yes i am, but i am not yet a senior partner in the law firm i work in

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:06 pm
by haprish
PrinceLabuta @ Nov 3 2007, 01:53 PM wrote:
haprish @ Nov 4 2007, 01:56 AM wrote:
PrinceLabuta @ Nov 3 2007, 03:11 AM wrote: PS: im just pissed, nearly got fired because i am a communist.


You're a lawyer right?


yes i am, but i am not yet a senior partner in the law firm i work in


I assume you live in the US. See, the problem is a lot of people want a lawyer who is either Democratic or Republican, not some third party. People are picky, just gotta deal with it. Communism works for China and sorta Korea, but since the Commy witch hunt not _too_ long ago, everyone is scared about Communism.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:19 pm
by Rizzy886
There's a good deal of things wrong with that last statement. And I'm going to explain them to you both. That's right commies, it's on.

People don't want a communist lawyer because the concept of a communist system goes against all the principles of our justice system, our legal system, and our way of life. The legal world is war, and naturally they would want their representation to relate to them and their peers. It's their right to do so, it's their lives, this is America, you should know that, and that's called freedom baby. Your political beliefs however are probably a hint to them that you're not as smart as you make yourself out to be. Granted, you're in that position I'm sure you are a fairly intelligent man, you're just a bit disillusioned and lacking in common sense.

Why you say this? Because Communism doesn't work, and it never has. If I hear you telling me Korea/China/Cuba/Russia were true socialist states I will beat you TO DEATH with a copy of the manifesto. North Korea is a military dictatorship, to say otherwise would be a blatant display of ignorance. The only reason the communist party manages to stay in power in China is because they're using communism to suppress their farmers and poor, meanwhile relying on capitalist districts to fuel their economy. Last I check this is the complete opposite of the Marxist ideals. The USSR was never a socialist state, it was just like the others. Really, Cuba, a country that relies on American tourism to survive is the closest the world will ever come to having a truely communist country. And all of these are shitty, third world, corrupt, horrible places to live. Why does communism fail? Because of human nature. Because we are greedy, jealous, and selfish. That will never change. It's a great theory when there's only one person involved, but once you drop a second person into the picture things get complicated.

To ignore this truth or not understand it at all is what makes a true communist.

Yet I don't in any way 'hate' communists, or hunt them, or persecute them. I myself am a cyber anarchist, and domestic terrorist. You could apply the same arguement to me, "do you really think that kind of society can exist?" That's the difference between us, no, no I don't, but by supporting the ideals of it and using pawns like you I can help to bring about social change and revolution.

Reality is a bitch.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:08 am
by PrinceLabuta
Chinese Communism isnt bad, it isnt perfect either. The Juche Idea (the DPRK's State Policy) is a laugh among progressive communists everywhere. The Cult Philosophy of Kim Il Sung and his deranged , paranoid, overweight, schizophrenic son, Kim Jong Il is an abomination and a true deviation from the Communist Philosophy.
this is a long lecture on Communism with Chinese Characteristics, so please take note: :D

in the whole of human histiory, communism is just barely 120 years old, that means, it is still young. it still has a lot of bad things to weed out.

for example, Deng Xiaoping said that "Socialism doesnt mean shared poverty. Planning and market forces are not the essential difference between socialism and capitalism. A planned economy is not the definition of socialism, because there is planning under capitalism; the market economy happens under socialism, too. Planning and market forces are both ways of controlling economic activity. We mustn't fear to adopt the advanced management methods applied in capitalist countries. The very essence of socialism is the liberation and development of the productive systems"

Deng's reforms actually included the introduction of planned, centralized management of the macro-economy by technically proficient bureaucrats, abandoning Mao's mass campaign style of economic construction. However, unlike the Soviet model, management was indirect through market mechanisms.

Deng sustained Mao's legacy to the extent that he stressed the primacy of agricultural output and encouraged a significant decentralization of decision making in the rural economy teams and individual peasant households. At the local level, material incentives, rather than political appeals, were to be used to motivate the labor force, including allowing peasants to earn extra income by selling the produce of their private plots at free market.

In the main move toward market allocation, local municipalities and provinces were allowed to invest in industries that they considered most profitable, which encouraged investment in light manufacturing. Thus, Deng's reforms shifted China's development strategy to an emphasis on light industry and export-led growth.

Light industrial output was vital for a developing country coming from a low capital base. With the short gestation period, low capital requirements, and high foreign-exchange export earnings, revenues generated by light manufacturing were able to be reinvested in more technologically-advanced production and further capital expenditures and investments.

However, in sharp contrast to the similar but much less successful reforms in Yugoslavia and Hungary, these investments were not government mandated. The capital invested in heavy industry largely came from the banking system, and most of that capital came from consumer deposits. One of the first items of the Deng reforms was to prevent reallocation of profits except through taxation or through the banking system; hence, the reallocation in state-owned industries was somewhat indirect, thus making them more or less independent from government interference. In short, Deng's reforms sparked an industrial revolution in China.

These reforms were a reversal of the Maoist policy of economic self-reliance. China decided to accelerate the modernization process by stepping up the volume of foreign trade, especially the purchase of machinery from Japan and the West. By participating in such export-led growth, China was able to step up the Four Modernizations by attaining certain foreign funds, market, advanced technologies and management experiences, thus accelerating its economic development.

Deng attracted foreign companies to a series of Special Economic Zones, where foreign investment and market liberalization were encouraged.

The reforms centered on improving labor productivity as well. New material incentives and bonus systems were introduced. Rural markets selling peasants' homegrown products and the surplus products of communes were revived. Not only did rural markets increase agricultural output, they stimulated industrial development as well. With peasants able to sell surplus agricultural yields on the open market, domestic consumption stimulated industrialization as well and also created political support for more difficult economic reforms.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:33 pm
by Rizzy886
I was disappointed to find that you copy pasted all of this and didn't think of any of it on your own. I hold my point.

But in short that says Deng Xiaoping is a hypocrite and replacing the flawed aspects of Communism with Capitalism for the sake of survival, however this does not make it a true socialists state, despite what he says. But I guess you commies are so dependent on having a working communist government that you bend the rules and lie to yourselves so they you can have an argument. Really this article just supports what I said, the only reason China is successful is because of the Capitalist reformed districts which allow it's economy to prosper.

gg sir gg

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:15 pm
by Hagios
To defend a government is to deny one's communism

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:45 pm
by Rizzy886
Communist Communist Revoltion. ^_^

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:18 pm
by Xaris
CCR!

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:32 am
by PrinceLabuta
i answer that statement with another of Deng Xiaoping's quotes. Politics and Economics are hardly separable. :D (forgive the long lectures, i have to research too! :P )

What is socialism and what is Marxism? We were not quite clear about this in the past. Marxism attaches utmost importance to developing the productive forces. We have said that socialism is the primary stage of communism and that at the advanced stage the principle of from each according to his ability and to each according to his needs will be applied. This calls for highly developed productive forces and an overwhelming abundance of material wealth. Therefore, the fundamental task for the socialist stage is to develop the productive forces. The superiority of the socialist system is demonstrated, in the final analysis, by faster and greater development of those forces than under the capitalist system. As they develop, the people's material and cultural life will constantly improve. One of our shortcomings after the founding of the People's Republic was that we didn't pay enough attention to developing the productive forces. Socialism means eliminating poverty. Pauperism is not socialism, still less communism.

If an idea is to survive, it must adapt and evolve.
Chairman Mao's idea is great, but the conditions present during his time and the conditions today are very different.

Compared with Latin America, China had more favorable conditions when it came to reform and open-up and bettering the living standard and infrastructure. But just as well she had to get her hands dirty and be very circumspect in the way she went about it. I believe the Reform and Opening-up Policy was characterized by the fact that industries with comparative advantage (“IWCAs”) have been quite successful, thereby securing a steady source of income from international trade.

China has put its head down and worked steadily to develop different levels of industry on the basis of comparative advantage. She started off with the primary, moved up and sank her teeth into the secondary and tertiary. China centered the development on competitiveness and would not protect any industries that it had resolved to develop. Instead China struck a balance between opening up and protection, tempering overseas imports with self-invention. When the time was right, China opened up (the market) and let the state enterprises, the foreign enterprises and the Chinese-civilian-run enterprises compete in a murderous and bloody dog fight. The triumphant party was bound to be globally competitive. This way China were able to secure a few industries that were competitive in the world as well as a steady source of income. One of those industries used to be textile, then we had electric products, both immense in scale, a small portion of either could pillar up a small economy, China instead took the industries as well as related opportunities over without much exchange of civilities.

From there on, China becomes different from other developing countries. They did not find an IWCA, and were preoccupied with all kinds of crisis. Should there be any “wind blowing and grass moving”, calamity befell. China instead has her IWCAs which form the base skeleton on which solutions and progress are made.

There is high development every year. Where IWCAs are concerned, she is not different from the Four Little Dragons, as all have developed on the basis of comparative advantage instead of following the developmental economy of Latin America. China’s issues and problems are not any fewer than those in Latin America. The divergence of the rich and the poor, as well as corruption etc, are more insidious. She has little land, few resources, massive population and too many job seekers, all in all she is less well-endowed than Latin America. Yet with her reliable industries, she has bigger hope than Latin America in overcoming these issues. Where a country does not find an IWCA, it will normally resort to selling raw materials. Of course unless a country is endowed with an unnatural streak of good fortune and oil and diamond can be scooped up everywhere, it is very vulnerable to wild fluctuation in prices. In general raw material does not solve too many problems. As a matter of economic principle, these countries have less way out than their industrialized counterparts.

China puts a lot of emphasis on industrialization as do the Four Little Dragons, yet there is a difference in the way they go about it. The Little Dragons had to upgrade after a while, shifting production elsewhere. They invariably found themselves caught up in tertiary production, high CPI and internal inflation, currency appreciation, virtual economy and consumption on credit. This path leads to flipping and speculation and aligns itself to the developed countries. For China, she engages in an industry and works her way up. Once she establishes a foothold, she will not let it go. She does not get involved in speculation either. What she is instead is a long-term low-price system. This is a strategy that sets its eyes on production capacity, rather than quick success and instant benefit and firing up of nominal GDP. Therefore, other regions have little point in aspiring to compete with her while she develops toward the direction of a global production base. Given the robust economic growth since the Reform and Opening-up Policy, it is only natural that wages will go up as well, isn’t it? Not really. Instead China works to suppress the prices of consumer industrial goods. There were a few wage increases but at a rate insignificant when compared to that of other countries. There has been in fact little increase in the wages of the population. Though in substance, there is a big rise in living standard. Real estate underwent a bit of speculation and the government immediately stepped on the brake, because speculation is inconsistent with the government’s strategy. Were China ever to throw herself into speculation though, then what with a general price hike and appreciation of RMB, her GDP would have long shot up into the sky. But the government says no speculation, no appreciation, do honest work and produce industrial products for self-consumption, and export as much as we can. Raw materials and advance equipment are two major components of our imports, and after going through processing at a few stages, they bring about added-value and favourable international trade balance. Yet the favouable balance is becoming a bit of a problem, this is an unprecedented economic phenomenon in history. There seem to be similarities with the Four Little Dragons, the developing countries and in terms the mode of international trade, with the developed countries, but there seem to be differences as well.

The appearance of a country like China, out of nowhere, has caught the developing countries, actually as well as the developed countries, quite unprepared. When China went ahead with the depreciation of RMB in 1993 and 1994, there was little murmur across the world. Nobody thought very much of it. Actually it was very “dark”. I mean China was able to devalue so substantially in one go, it could be considered a sneak attack accomplished. Should it take place nowadays, I mean as it is, people are already going ballistic just because China refuse to appreciate the Yuan, a heap of people will go ape shit were China to depreciate it instead. SE Asia as well as Latin America have found out that they are no competition to China – foreign capitals rush in, infrastructure gets better and better, chains of production congregate, there is “a war feeding a war”. Over time a positive self-reinforcing cycle will form, and competition will be just out of the question. The government has gone to extraordinary lengths and spared no effort to make it happen. China is not talking about a tiny shortfall in competitiveness, we are talking about being driven out of the competition altogether. To compete they have to build high-end infrastructure, assemble all related plants and have a multitude of high-quality and low-wage labour. Not any one of these factors is easily attainable. Mexico was hard-hit, and had been dragging her feet in consenting to China’s entry to WTO.


Does that remove any doubt you have on the Economic Genius of Deng Xiaoping?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:20 am
by Rizzy886
It's just copy pasta, this isn't a lecture in any way, it's not your own work, nor is it even worth reading that crap if you aren't dedicated enough to your cause then I'm going to give you a nice... citation needed

Economic genius? Hah. He's a man who realized that his country was failing and betrayed their ideals for gain, suppressed the weak, and gave to the rich. That makes him a man with common sense and a dictator. In the eyes of Dante he'd be deep in the inferno.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:49 am
by PrinceLabuta
do you think college and graduate professors use their own words to teach? they always copy it. and i do too, the last one is from an article tittled This time, China is different, from China, The Times.


anyway, the facts speaks for itself. The PRC shrugged off the horrors of Mao's Cultural Revolution, and has gotten herself a place in the world arena. It was Deng who started to reform and open up China's economy. Deng is the mastermind behind China's Economic Miracle, he made sure China is competetive. And if you still dont believe the truth, that Poverty in China is less than 8 percent, try and go there. i should know, ive been there, several times.

right now, the US maybe the largest retail economy but in 5-7 years, Europe will overtake the US in Comsumer Spending. in terms of PPP or Purchasing power parity, the US Dollar is weak vs the Euro, Yen and RMB.

look at the Asian Economic Tigers, Their Largest trading partner is China, even Japan and South Korea, their largest trading partner is no longer the US but China. Even the US herself.

as for the time being, China is an Economic Superpower. and the man behind it is none other than Comrade Deng Xiaoping.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:59 pm
by Rizzy886
All the countries in the continent of Europe combined are going to have a greater economy than us in ten years? Ohno. Shame they're NOTHING compared to our economic power alone. All you're able to say about Communism is some copypasta about how he reformed the economy. Yes, he did, sucessfully, and he did so using CAPITALISM. That 8% that's still in poverty, those are the farmers in China who arn't fortunate enough to live in the main city districts where free trade is allowed.

College grads and professors just copy paste their lectures? No, I don't think so. That's what we call plagarism and academic dishonesty. Sure, they'le read the text, but they're intelligent enough to come up with their own ideas and concepts. Otherwise, shit, I could be a professor! And even you! But you... you appear to be unable formulate your own original though. You just take what information is presented to you and follow the crowd. You are a pawn. And that's why you're a communist.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:04 pm
by CrimsonBlade
sting is right you know china is using capitalist ideas, while also taking in jobs from other countries and not letting any products from other countries in so that china's money is being recirulated within china while adding on the value of other country's currency

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:07 pm
by Champagne
oh snap, lets blockade the seas around Cuba again, and stockpile nukes, looks like the second cold wars coming to this VERY THREAD.

What the fuck? the world already argued about communism and empirical/imperial rule, the topic is as dead as the term communism, move on already.

It was funny to watch you all try though.

argue about something meaningful, like California burning like tinder or Dumbledore being gay!

OR -- China & Mattel making our kids retarded with lead based paints on toys!! (sorry krim, couldn't resist)


天子

Hoorah.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:19 pm
by haprish
Champagne @ Nov 5 2007, 10:07 AM wrote: argue about something meaningful, like California burning like tinder or Dumbledore being gay!


Please do not crack jokes about the fires. My family and friends homes were almost burnt done.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:47 pm
by Rizzy886
I'm not sure whether that was sarcasm or just completely retarded. Is your scope really so small that a fictional character's sexuality is more important than the mindset plaguing our generation? Either you're one of those people, or that was clever.

Time has tested communism and it has failed.
History shows this reality.
And history repeats itself.

But you can't sit there claiming yourself to be a Communist while living off the very government you call evil. What are you, Islamic?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:41 pm
by Champagne
@Haprish Who said I was cracking jokes? my brother lives in California, so to me it's FAR more important than a dead idealistic topic. trust me, I wasn't making fun.

@Rizzy886 The only thing plauging our generation is inbred rejects like you.

Communism died with the Soviets, and China wont be far behind. It's not that I completely disagree with with communism, more like it's to late for it to exist. communism is just another form of nazi'ism. go figure why it didn't stick around..

Pot calling the kettle black, and the last time I checked.. the goverment lived off MY taxes, not me/us/anyone living off them, and if you are you should get a job, wellfare only goes on for so long.

not to mention if Communsim WAS a large part of life, losers like you wouldn't have a place, youd pretty much sum up the poor part of that sect, from your inability to evolve any life skills other than arguing on a forum, and dressing up as characters from fictional realitys.

At least Labuta is trying, being a lawyer and all, not that it's a profession to be proud of..

So like I said before, why not argue about something more meaningful LIKE Dumbledore being gay!
or the existence of alternate timelines, and the "string" theory of how the universe and matter is formed? and how it's highly probable that reality exists in at least 10 different dimensions, possibly more?
or that lightspeed travel is and will eventually be a feesable means of transportation through space, using worm holes?

and NO! my scope is 10X - 40X! how can i snipe with a small scope? :(

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:34 pm
by Rizzy886
Why do you have to take a semi-intelligent conversation and remove the prefix...I don't see why you aren't banned, seriously, the hypocrisy of your statements astound me. Go make some friends or something dude.

So let me try to pull an argument from that flamebait.
-As long as people are still running around declaring themselves communists it's still relevant.

-I have a job, I don't live off welfare.
-My place in a communist society would be as a leader in the party, because though you may find this to be pointless I managed to pull you all to slaughter like sheep didn't I?
-I'de be proud if I passed the BAR, more than you can say about your meaningless existance. Ragnarok < Law Degree
-You'de cosplay as Dumbledoor if you had the balls.
-The foam space time theory is bull, apply it to Einstein's theory of relativity and you'de have to not only have a negative length but be traveling backwards in time to do so. You get right on that, until then I'll stick to the 'not possible' theory.
-If you don't like this thread then stfu and gtfo.

My scope is over nine thousand.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:23 pm
by Champagne
I'm not banned because everyone cares less for you then they do me loser.
try not being a retarded homophobic racist bigotrist and you MIGHT be able to make friends who aren't assholes too.

And the only thing you and your "friends" could ever manage is something semi-intelligent. Hence the topic & arguments about communism. or all the other bullshit chronic idiots like you post.

And for your information, jackass, you baited me first in a previous post, need I display a link to a copied page before you try to go back and withdraw it?

and the only thing getting slaughtered time and again is your overinflated, misplaced ego.

oh also, not to point this out.. well YES to point it out, unless you've been living in the stone age, or in your case a californian gay bar, maybe you should try studying something besides another mans dick, like oh say, some basic physics, astral physics, quantum theory, or something else that doesn't have a third grade reading level on it before you dismiss theory or facts about a universe you wont even be alive long enough to understand as bullshit.

Once again you've proven to everyone here your ignorance about everything that doesn't involve gay comments or racial slurs in them. googling facts about communism so you can seem smart, or have ANOTHER reason to be an asshole to everyone you don't know. Yep Sting, such a big man. (as usual)

And no Sting unless you failed to read the words in my prior post, I have no issue whatsoever with this thread, or the one who started it, just you, as all problems in the QR forums and qrRO seem to revolve around, which is the way a dropout like you wants it, center of attention in a place nobody cares to visit more than once a week (excluding you, fagios, hiprash, and whatever other californian buttbuddies you drag around with you) fuck, even Codemaster barely posts more then every other week, and its HIS forum.

grow the fuck up douchbag. everyone else can see YOU'RE the only problem here. why the hell else do you think you've been banned the most of ANY other two combined people? trust me when i say it's not your charming personality.

The only thing you do is bait EVERYONE around here, to try and make up for the fact you have a small ass dick, and an ego just as small.

Like is said to everyone else when i played qrRO who had a problem, if you don't like me, [B][U]DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT

(butcha never do, cause your all flaming racist cowards)

and if I DO get banned, at LEAST I don't have to deal with dropout trash you like you for awhile Sting.

Till then suck my big fat American atheist dick.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:40 pm
by PrinceLabuta
Enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


This thread is about me being persecuted for my political ideas. not a sumo match between your obese egos.

@Rizzy, i really appreciate your effort, trying to reason with me and all, but i am a a communist who believes in Marxism/Leninism/Deng Xiaoping theory. but we live in america, and everyone has the right to voice out his grievances.

@Champagne I am the communist, not rizzy, so if you got problems with communists like me, i say, GO TO HELL. Global Economy and Politics are important matters to discuss, its more sensible than some fictional characters homosexual heartbreak. always remember, only member states of the UN Security Council have Veto Powers, and China is one of them.

and another thing, NEVER COMPARE COMMUNISM WITH NAZISM.
Hitler and his Master race can rot in hell. Stalin along with him.


As long as China exists, Socialism and Communism lives. China is experimenting with Socialism, in fact, in my previous posts, communism is not as old as democracy. we still have a long way to go. Communism with Chinese Characteristics is like a bamboo in a typhoon, it will bend, but never break. the soviets stood firm like an oak tree. they would bend, and their method died.

LONG LIVE THE PEOPLE'S REVOLUTION

*Plays the Internationale*

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:00 am
by Hagios
so then, labuta. you truly believe that everyone needs to be treated equally?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:11 am
by Valheru
Ok, so gonna be suicidal and jump into the war.


First point. Communism as you describe it is not hte true version of communism. you talk about a modified way of communism is applied so that is can work in the world that we know it.

rizzy has a point in the fact that true communism won;t work cause by human nature we are just a bunch of greedy people who want the most we can get for the least amount of effort.

Another thing/. with hitler... yeah he was a bastard and killed a ton of people. but other then that it wasn't bad. now we just need someone to do the same thing without the mass killings.... (besides, stalin killed a hell of a lot more people then hitler even came close to...)

Pretty much. the closest thing i have heard to true communism was the old way of life of the native americans before white people (like myself) got greedy and took over their land... and drove them off (trail of tears.)


Champagne. Dumbledore has no damn relevence on htis topic. go start a topic on that elsewhere...


BTW. the bar exam is a bitch and is he becomes a lawyer.... it's worth it. i could become a good lawyer but thats not the kinda job and stress i want to live under so i slack off in college now (while working) and still trying to decide what to do with my life...

Rizzy the wormholes bypassing einsteins relativity thing doens;t really matter.... science is all about coming up with improvements to old ideas and discovering new ones....&nbsp;&nsbp;&nbsp;&nsbp;if wormholes are possible... we will have found somehting to either disprove his relativiy theory and give us a new one to replace it.... or it isn;t possible and in that case... we'll never achieve it so it's a moot point. we won't know whats possible for many years.



now to BOTH RIZZY AND CHAMPAGNE. from all the post i have read. you are BOTH a pain in the ass on the forums... but reading your arguements provides entertainment for the first couple posts... then it just looks like two stupid 5-year olds arguing.... if you guys even make the intellectual level of that....


Back to the communism issue. whether people give you grief for being communist or not is entirely your fault. 90% of america (if not 99.9%) don't give a rats ass about your beliefs and the only way they would know you were communist of believed in it is if you brought it up of your own free will... and then most people would only get ticked if you decided to force your beliefs on all of us. (please read the most common mistakes of man in sig. of course i violate a few of these too.. but everyone does.)


EDIT: PS. If you expect me to take ANY argument personally... you need to attack the ARGUMENT. not the person... (which rizzy was doing a good job with.... and champagne failed miserably...)